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		<title>Dante Alighieri -- The Divine Comedy [Divina Commedia], Book 3 &#8220;Paradiso,&#8221; Canto 13, l. 139ff (13.139-142) [Thomas Aquinas] (1320) [tr. Ciardi (1970)]</title>
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		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Aug 2024 00:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Dante Alighieri]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[appearances]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[damnation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[divine judgment]]></category>
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		<description><![CDATA[Let Tom and Jane not think, because they see one man is picking pockets and another is offering all his goods to charity, that they can judge their neighbors with God&#8217;s eyes: for the pious man may fall, and the thief may rise. [Non creda donna Berta e ser Martino, per vedere un furare, altro [&#8230;]]]></description>
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let Tom and Jane not think, because they see<br />
<span class="tab">one man is picking pockets and another<br />
<span class="tab">is offering all his goods to charity,<br />
that they can judge their neighbors with God&#8217;s eyes:<br />
for the pious man may fall, and the thief may rise.</p>
<p><em>[Non creda donna Berta e ser Martino,<br />
<span class="tab">per vedere un furare, altro offerere,<br />
<span class="tab">vederli dentro al consiglio divino;<br />
ché quel può surgere, e quel può cadere.]</span></span></em></span></span></p>
<br><b>Dante Alighieri</b> (1265-1321) Italian poet<br><i>The Divine Comedy [Divina Commedia]</i>, Book 3 <i>&#8220;Paradiso,&#8221;</i> Canto 13, l. 139ff (13.139-142) [Thomas Aquinas] (1320) [tr. Ciardi (1970)] 
									<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(<a href="https://archive.org/details/paradisoverseren00dant/page/n155/mode/2up?view=theater&q=%22tom+and+jane%22" target="_blank">Source</a>)
										<br><br><span class="cite">
						

<em>Berta</em> and <em>Martino</em> were common names in Dante's era, and stand in for "ordinary people" (with a sarcastic hint of pretension by giving them minor titles). Most translators use a straight translation of the names to <em>Bertha</em> and <em>Martin;</em> others change them to something more modern to reflect their everyman status.<br><br>

(<a href="https://it.wikisource.org/wiki/Divina_Commedia/Paradiso/Canto_XIII#:~:text=Non%20creda%20donna,quel%20pu%C3%B2%20cadere">Source (Italian)</a>). Alternate translations:<br><br>

<blockquote><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab">The pious man <br>
May fail ; the Penitent, altho' by spoil <br>
<span class="tab">He liv'd, may purchase Heav'n by arduous toil<br>
<span class="tab">Ere death: it is not our's their fate to scan.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/divinacommediaof03dantuoft/page/164/mode/2up?q=%22the+pious+man%22">Boyd</a> (1802), st. 24]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab">Seeing one steal,<br>
Another bring, his offering to the priest,<br>
<span class="tab">Let not Dame Bertha and Sir Martin thence<br>
<span class="tab">Into heav’n’s counsels deem that they can pry:<br>
For one of these may rise, the other fall.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.gutenberg.org/files/8799/8799-h/8799-h.htm#cantoIII.13:~:text=seeing%20one%20steal%2C%0AAnother%20brine%2C%20his%20offering%20to%20the%20priest%2C%0ALet%20not%20Dame%20Birtha%20and%20Sir%20Martin%20thence%0AInto%20heav%E2%80%99n%E2%80%99s%20counsels%20deem%20that%20they%20can%20pry%3A%0AFor%20one%20of%20these%20may%20rise%2C%20the%20other%20fall.">Cary</a> (1814)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Let not Nun Bertha and Saint Martin try,<br>
<span class="tab">Seeing one offer, and another steal,<br>
<span class="tab">The counsel of the heaven from that to tell:<br>
For this may rise again, and that may fall.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/comedyofdanteal00dant/page/384/mode/2up?q=%22nun+bertha%22">Bannerman</a> (1850)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Let not Dame Bertha nor Ser Martin think,<br>
<span class="tab">Seeing one steal, another offering make,<br>
<span class="tab">To see them in the arbitrament divine;<br>
For one may rise, and fall the other may.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Divine_Comedy_(Longfellow_1867)/Volume_3/Canto_13#:~:text=Let%20not%20Dame%20Bertha%20nor%20Ser%20Martin%20think%2C%0A%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0Seeing%20one%20steal%2C%20another%20offering%20make%2C%0A%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0To%20see%20them%20in%20the%20arbitrament%20divine%3B%0A%0AFor%20one%20may%20rise%2C%20and%20fall%20the%20other%20may.">Longfellow</a> (1867)] </blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Let not Dame Bertha and Master Martin deem, for seeing one steal, another make offerings, that they are seeing them within the Divine counsel; for that one may be exalted and this may fall.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/paradisedanteal00aliggoog/page/n202/mode/2up?q=%22dame+bertha%22">Butler</a> (1885)] </blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Let not Dame Bertha nor Sir Martin deem,<br>
<span class="tab">Because they see one rob, another pray,<br>
<span class="tab">That they can pry within the will supreme; <br>
For one can rise, and one can fall away.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/divinecomedyofda00dantrich/page/312/mode/2up?q=%22dame+bertha%22">Minchin</a> (1885)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Let not dame Bertha and master Martin, seeing one rob, and another make offering, believe to see them within the Divine counsel: for the one may rise and the other may fall.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1997/1997-h/1997-h.htm#cantoIII.XIII:~:text=Let%20not%20dame%20Bertha%20and%20master%20Martin%2C%20seeing%20one%20rob%2C%20and%20another%20make%20offering%2C%20believe%20to%20see%20them%20within%20the%20Divine%20counsel%3A%5B10%5D%20for%20the%20one%20may%20rise%20and%20the%20other%20may%20fall.">Norton</a> (1892)] </blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Let not Dame Bertha or Squire Martin think, if they perceive one steal and one make offering, they therefore see them as in the divine counsel; for the one yet may rise and the other fall.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/paradisoofdante00dant/page/164/mode/2up?q=bertha">Wicksteed</a> (1899)] </blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Let not Dame Bertha and Master Martin, when they see one rob and another make an offering, think they see them within the divine counsel; for the one may rise and the other fall.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/divinecomedyofda0000dant/page/194/mode/2up?q=%22dame+bertha%22">Sinclair</a> (1939)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Let no Dame Bertha or Sir Martin deem, <br>
<span class="tab">Because they see one steal and one give all, <br>
<span class="tab">They see as divine forethought seéth them; <br>
For the one yet may rise and the other fall.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/dantesparadisowi0000laur/page/154/mode/2up?q=%22dame+bertha%22">Binyon</a> (1943)] </blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Let Jack and Jill not think they see so far<br>
<span class="tab">That, seeing this man pious, that a thief,<br>
<span class="tab">They see them such as in God's sight they are,<br>
For one may rise, the other come to grief.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/comedyofdanteali0000dant/page/172/mode/2up?q=%22let+jack+and+jill%22">Sayers/Reynolds</a> (1962)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Let not dame Bertha and squire Martin, if they see one steal and one make offering, believe to see them within the Divine Counsel: for the one may rise and the other may fall.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Divine_Comedy_III_Paradiso_Vol_III_P/4Q48EAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=let%20bertha">Singleton</a> (1975)] </blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Let not every Bertha and Martin think <br>
<span class="tab">Because they see one a thief, another respectable, <br>
<span class="tab">That they see how they are in the eyes of God; <br>
For one may rise, and the other one may fall.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/divinecomedy0000dant/page/408/mode/2up?q=%22let+not+every+bertha%22">Sisson</a> (1981)] </blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Let not Dame Bertha or Master Martin think <br>
<span class="tab">that they have shared God’s Counsel when they see <br>
<span class="tab">one rob and see another who donates:<br>
the last may fall, the other may be saved.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/paradiso0000dant_k1w9/page/116/mode/2up?q=%22let+not+dame+bertha%22">Mandelbaum</a> (1984)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>No Mr. or Miss Know-It-All should think, <br>
<span class="tab">when they see one man steal and one give alms <br>
<span class="tab">that they are seeing them through God's own eyes,<br>
for one may yet rise up, the other fall.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/dantesparadise0000dant/page/162/mode/2up?q=%22know-it-all%22">Musa</a> (1984)] </blockquote><br>

<blockquote><span class="tab">Let not dame Bertha and messer Martin believe, because they see one stealing, another offering, that they see them within God’s counsel,<br>
<span class="tab">for that one can rise up, and this one can fall.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/divinecomedyofda0000dant_e4e9/page/272/mode/2up?q=%22let+not+dame+bertha%22">Durling</a> (2011)] </blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Do not let Jack and Jill think, that if they see someone steal or another make offering they therefore see them as Divine Wisdom does, since the one may still rise, and the other fall.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Italian/DantPar8to14.php#:~:text=Do%20not%20let%20Jack%20and%20Jill%20think%2C%20that%20if%20they%20see%20someone%20steal%20or%20another%20make%20offering%20they%20therefore%20see%20them%20as%20Divine%20Wisdom%20does%2C%20since%20the%20one%20may%20still%20rise%2C%20and%20the%20other%20fall.">Kline</a> (2002)] </blockquote><br>

<blockquote>And so when Mrs Smith and Mr Jones <br>
<span class="tab">see one man steal, another offer alms, <br>
<span class="tab">don’t let them think they see this in God’s plan. <br>
The thief may rise, the other take a fall.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/divinecomedy3par0000dant/page/128/mode/2up?q=%22may+rise%22">Kirkpatrick</a> (2007)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Let not Dame Bertha and Master Martin,<br>
<span class="tab">when they see one steal and another offer alms,<br>
<span class="tab">think that they behold them with God's wisdom,<br>
for the first may still rise up, the other fall.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://dante.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/dante/campuscgi/mpb/GetCantoSection.pl?INP_POEM=Par&INP_SECT=13&INP_START=139&INP_LEN=4&LANG=0">Hollander/Hollander</a> (2007)] </blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Let not Mrs. Judy and Mister John,<br>
<span class="tab">Seeing one man steal but another before<br>
<span class="tab">The altar with offerings, think one is sinful, <br>
<span class="tab">The other's in Heaven -- for people rise and fall.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Divine_Comedy/WZyBj-s9PfsC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22mrs.%20judy%22">Raffel</a> (2010)] </blockquote><br>
						</span>
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		<title>Stross, Charles -- The Apocalypse Codex (2012)</title>
		<link>https://wist.info/stross-charles/36469/</link>
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		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Mar 2017 22:23:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Stross, Charles]]></category>
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		<description><![CDATA[&#8220;There are two types of people in this world,&#8221; Pete volunteers helpfully, &#8220;those who think there are only two types of people in the world, and everybody else.&#8221; He sips his wine thoughtfully. &#8220;But the first kind don&#8217;t put it that way. They usually think in terms of the saved and the damned, with themselves [&#8230;]]]></description>
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There are two types of people in this world,&#8221; Pete volunteers helpfully, &#8220;those who think there are only two types of people in the world, and everybody else.&#8221; He sips his wine thoughtfully. &#8220;But the first kind don&#8217;t put it that way. They usually think in terms of the saved and the damned, with themselves sitting pretty in the lifeboat.&#8221;</p>
<br><b>Charles "Charlie" Stross</b> (b. 1964) British writer <br><i>The Apocalypse Codex</i> (2012) 
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		<title>Bronte, Anne -- &#8220;A Word to Calvinists&#8221; (28 May 1843)</title>
		<link>https://wist.info/bronte-anne/36121/</link>
		<comments>https://wist.info/bronte-anne/36121/#respond</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2017 16:51:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bronte, Anne]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[afterlife]]></category>
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		<description><![CDATA[And, when you, looking on your fellow men Behold them doomed to endless misery, How can you talk of joy and rapture then? May God withhold such cruel joy from me!]]></description>
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And, when you, looking on your fellow men<br />
Behold them doomed to endless misery,<br />
How can you talk of joy and rapture then?<br />
May God withhold such cruel joy from me!</p>
<br><b>Anne Brontë</b> (1820-1849) British novelist, poet [pseud. Acton Bell]<br>&#8220;A Word to Calvinists&#8221; (28 May 1843) 
									<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(<a href="https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_Word_to_the_Calvinists" target="_blank">Source</a>)
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		<title>Bronte, Anne -- &#8220;A Word to Calvinists&#8221; (28 May 1843)</title>
		<link>https://wist.info/bronte-anne/35992/</link>
		<comments>https://wist.info/bronte-anne/35992/#respond</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2017 19:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bronte, Anne]]></category>
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		<description><![CDATA[You may rejoice to think yourselves secure, You may be grateful for the gift divine, That grace unsought which made your black hearts pure And fits your earthborn souls in Heaven to shine. But is it sweet to look around and view Thousands excluded from that happiness, Which they deserve at least as much as [&#8230;]]]></description>
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may rejoice to think yourselves secure,<br />
You may be grateful for the gift divine,<br />
That grace unsought which made your black hearts pure<br />
And fits your earthborn souls in Heaven to shine.<br />
But is it sweet to look around and view<br />
Thousands excluded from that happiness,<br />
Which they deserve at least as much as you,<br />
Their faults not greater nor their virtues less?</p>
<br><b>Anne Brontë</b> (1820-1849) British novelist, poet [pseud. Acton Bell]<br>&#8220;A Word to Calvinists&#8221; (28 May 1843) 
									<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(<a href="https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_Word_to_the_Calvinists" target="_blank">Source</a>)
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		<title>Ingersoll, Robert Green -- &#8220;What Must We Do To Be Saved?&#8221; Sec. 11 (1880)</title>
		<link>https://wist.info/ingersoll-robert-green/16557/</link>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2011 15:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Ingersoll, Robert Green]]></category>
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		<description><![CDATA[As long as we love we will hope to live, and when the one dies that we love we will say: &#8220;Oh, that we could meet again,&#8221; and whether we do or not it will not be the work of theology. It will be a fact in nature. I would not for my life destroy [&#8230;]]]></description>
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as we love we will hope to live, and when the one dies that we love we will say: &#8220;Oh, that we could meet again,&#8221; and whether we do or not it will not be the work of theology. It will be a fact in nature. I would not for my life destroy one star of human hope, but I want it so that when a poor woman rocks the cradle and sings a lullaby to the dimpled darling, she will not be compelled to believe that ninety-nine chances in a hundred she is raising kindling wood for hell.</p>
<br><b>Robert Green Ingersoll</b> (1833-1899) American lawyer, freethinker, orator<br>&#8220;What Must We Do To Be Saved?&#8221; Sec. 11 (1880) 
									<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(<a href="http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/ing/vol01/i0110.htm" target="_blank">Source</a>)
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