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		<title>Ehrman, Bart -- Misquoting Jesus, Introduction (2005)</title>
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		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Dec 2023 15:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
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		<description><![CDATA[How does it help us to say that the Bible is the inerrant word of God if in fact we don&#8217;t have the words that God inerrantly inspired, but only the words copied by the scribes &#8212; sometimes correctly but sometimes (many times!) incorrectly? What good is it to say that the autographs (i.e., the [&#8230;]]]></description>
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How does it help us to say that the Bible is the inerrant word of God if in fact we don&#8217;t have the words that God inerrantly inspired, but only the words copied by the scribes &#8212; sometimes correctly but sometimes (many times!) incorrectly? What good is it to say that the autographs (i.e., the originals) were inspired? We don&#8217;t <i>have</i> the originals! We have only error-ridden copies, and the vast majority of these are centuries removed from the originals and different from them, evidently, in thousands of ways.</p>
<br><b>Bart D. Ehrman</b> (b. 1955) American Biblical scholar, author<br><i>Misquoting Jesus</i>, Introduction (2005) 
									<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(<a href="https://archive.org/details/B-001-016-573/page/n19/mode/2up?q=%22help+us+to+say%22" target="_blank">Source</a>)
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		<title>Ehrman, Bart -- &#8220;The Textual Reliability of the New Testament: A Dialogue between Bart Ehrman and Daniel Wallace,&#8221; Greer-Heard Point-Counterpoint Forum in Faith and Culture (2008-04-04/05)</title>
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		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2023 18:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
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		<description><![CDATA[The question is then how can we decide what anybody in the ancient world said. We can&#8217;t. We wish we could. It would be nice if we could. You would like to think that because you can go to the store and buy an edition of Plato that you are actually reading Plato, but the [&#8230;]]]></description>
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question is then how can we decide what anybody in the ancient world said. We can&#8217;t. We wish we could. It would be nice if we could. You would like to think that because you can go to the store and buy an edition of Plato that you are actually reading Plato, but the problem is that we just do not have the kind of evidence that we need in order to establish what ancient authors actually wrote. In some cases, we have all these data, and sometimes we have just one manuscript. Sometimes we have a manuscript that was written two-thousand years later, and that&#8217;s it! So, as much as we would like to be able to say we know what ancient authors actually wrote, we often just do not know.</p>
<br><b>Bart D. Ehrman</b> (b. 1955) American Biblical scholar, author<br>&#8220;The Textual Reliability of the New Testament: A Dialogue between Bart Ehrman and Daniel Wallace,&#8221; Greer-Heard Point-Counterpoint Forum in Faith and Culture (2008-04-04/05) 
									<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(<a href="https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Reliability_of_the_New_Testament/UaRkR3WI0rYC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22edition%20of%20plato%22" target="_blank">Source</a>)
										<br><br><span class="cite">
						

Reprinted in Robert Stewart, ed., <i>The Reliability of the New Testament</i> (2011).
						</span>
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		<title>Horace -- Odes [Carmina], Book 4, #  9, l.  25ff (4.9.25-28) (23 BC) [tr. Marshall (1908)]</title>
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		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
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		<description><![CDATA[Oft before Agamemnon brave men warred; But all unwept they lie in endless night, Lacking, to deck their deeds with light, Song of a heaven-taught bard. [Vixere fortes ante Agamemnona multi; sed omnes illacrimabiles urgentur ignotique longa nocte, carent quia vate sacro.] &#8220;To Lollius.&#8221; See also Gray. (Source (Latin)). Alternate translations: Men slasht ere Diomed [&#8230;]]]></description>
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oft before Agamemnon brave men warred;<br />
But all unwept they lie in endless night,<br />
<span class="tab">Lacking, to deck their deeds with light,<br />
<span class="tab"><span class="tab">Song of a heaven-taught bard.</p>
<p><em>[Vixere fortes ante Agamemnona<br />
multi; sed omnes illacrimabiles<br />
<span class="tab">urgentur ignotique longa<br />
<span class="tab"><span class="tab">nocte, carent quia vate sacro.]</span></span></span></em></span></span></span></p>
<br><b>Horace</b> (65–8 BC) Roman poet, satirist, soldier, politician [Quintus Horatius Flaccus]<br><i>Odes [Carmina]</i>, Book 4, #  9, l.  25ff (4.9.25-28) (23 BC) [tr. Marshall (1908)] 
									<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(<a href="https://archive.org/details/horacescompletew00hora/page/102/mode/2up?q=%22Oft+before+Agamemnon%22" target="_blank">Source</a>)
										<br><br><span class="cite">
						

"To Lollius." See also <a href="https://wist.info/gray-thomas/1727/">Gray</a>.<br><br>

(<a href="https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0024%3Abook%3D4%3Apoem%3D9#:~:text=vixere%20fortes%20ante%20Agamemnona%0Amulti%3B%20sed%20omnes%20inlacrimabiles%0Aurgentur%20ignotique%20longa%0Anocte%2C%20carent%20quia%20vate%20sacro.">Source (Latin)</a>). Alternate translations:<br><br>

<blockquote>Men slasht ere Diomed was made:<br>
But all are in oblivion drown'd,<br>
<span class="tab">And put unmourn'd into the ground,<br>
<span class="tab"><span class="tab">For lack of Sacred Poets aid.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A44478.0001.001/1:6?rgn=div1;view=fulltext#:~:text=Men%20slasht%20ere,Sacred%20Poets%20aid.">Fanshawe</a>; ed. Brome (1666)] </blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Before that Age a thousand liv'd,<br>
<span class="tab">And sent surprising Glories forth,<br>
But none the silent Grave surviv'd;<br>
In Night their Splendor's gone,<br>
They fell, unmourn'd, unknown;<br>
<span class="tab">Because no Verse embalms their Worth.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A44471.0001.001/1:5?rgn=div1;view=fulltext#:~:text=Before%20that%20Age,embalms%20their%20Worth.">Creech</a> (1684)]</blockquote><br>



<blockquote>Vain was the Chief's, the Sage's pride!<br>
<span class="tab">They had no Poet, and they dy'd.<br>
In vain they schem'd, in vain they bled!<br>
<span class="tab">They had no Poet, and are dead.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Works_of_Alexander_Pope_Esq_Imitatio/9SMrAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22vain%20was%20the%22">Pope</a> (1733–38)]</blockquote><br>



<blockquote>Before Atrides men were brave:<br>
But ah! oblivion, dark and long,<br>
<span class="tab">Has lock'd them in a tearless grave,<br>
<span class="tab"><span class="tab">For lack of consecrating song.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0025%3Abook%3D4%3Apoem%3D9#:~:text=Before%20Atrides%20men%20were%20brave%3A%0ABut%20ah!%20oblivion%2C%20dark%20and%20long%2C%0AHas%20lock%27d%20them%20in%20a%20tearless%20grave%2C%0AFor%20lack%20of%20consecrating%20song.">Conington</a> (1872)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Many brave men lived before Agamemnon: but all of them, unlamented and unknown, are overwhelmed with endless obscurity, because they were destitute of a sacred bard.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_works_of_Horace/Fourth_Book_of_Odes#:~:text=Many%20brave%20men%20lived%20before%20Agamemnon%3A%20but%20all%20of%20them%2C%20unlamented%20and%20unknown%2C%20are%20overwhelmed%20with%20endless%20obscurity%2C%20because%20they%20were%20destitute%20of%20a%20sacred%20bard.">Smart/Buckley</a> (1853)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Many, many have lived, who were valiant in fight, <br>
Before Agamemnon; but all have gone down,<br>
<span class="tab">Unwept and unknown, in the darkness of night, <br>
<span class="tab"><span class="tab">For lack of a poet to hymn their renown.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/odesofhoracetran00horarich/page/224/mode/2up?q=%22Many%2C+many+have+lived%22">Martin</a> (1864)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Many brave men have lived long before Agamemnon, <br>
But o’er them darkly presses the slumber eternal; <br>
<span class="tab">All unwept and unknown, wanting Him --<br>
<span class="tab"><span class="tab">Everlastingly sacred -- the Bard!<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/odesandepodesho05horagoog/page/422/mode/2up?q=%22Many+brave+men+%22">Bulwer-Lytton</a> (1870)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Many brave men lived before Agamemnon, but all like crushed under eternal obvlivion, unknown to us and unwept by us, because no bard hath immortalized them.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Works_of_Horace/-f8pAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22many%20brave%20men%22">Elgood</a> (1893)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Ere Agamemnon saw the light <br>
<span class="tab">There lived brave men: but tearless all,<br>
Enfolded in eternal night, <br>
<span class="tab">For lack of sacred minstrels, fall.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/a587951400horauoft/page/n157/mode/2up?q=%22Ere+Agamemnon+saw%22">Gladstone</a> (1894)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Brave men before the great Agamemnon's time <br>
Liv'd many, but in tearless oblivion <br>
<span class="tab">And night, unknown and unlamented <br>
<span class="tab"><span class="tab">Lie they, for want of a sacred poet <br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/odesofhoraceinen00horarich/page/114/mode/2up?q=%22Brave+m%5Een+before+the+great%22">Phelps</a> (1897)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Prior to Agamemnon lived many who were brave, <br>
But all unwept, unknown.<br>
<span class="tab">In endless night are plunged because <br>
<span class="tab"><span class="tab">They lack a bard divine.v
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/cu31924026490726/page/n223/mode/2up?q=%22Prior+to+Agamemnon%22">Garnsey</a> (1907)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Many heroes lived before Agamemnon ; but all are overwhelmed in unending night, unwept, unknown, because they lack a sacred bard.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.98705/page/n347/mode/2up?q=%22Many+heroes+lived%22">Bennett (Loeb)</a> (1912)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Before the age of Agamemnon wight<br>
Lived many a hero, but unwept, unknown,<br>
<span class="tab">Because no sacred bard hymned their renown, <br>
<span class="tab"><span class="tab">They, one and all, lie whelmed in endless night.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/odesofhoracemills00horaiala/page/104/mode/2up?q=%22Before+the+age+of+Agamemnon%22">Mills</a> (1924)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Many brave men lived before Agamemnon,<br>
But all went down unmourned, unhouured, into the smothering darkness<br>
For lack of a minstrel to be their glory-giver.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/odesofhorace0000hora/page/234/mode/2up?q=%22many+brave+men%22">Michie</a> (1963)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>There were heroes before Agamemnon <br>
Was born -- but who knows them? Unmourned,<br>
<span class="tab">They lie buried in eternal darkness,<br>
<span class="tab"><span class="tab">Sung by no sacred song.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/essentialhoraceo0000hora/page/98/mode/2up?q=%22there+were+heroes%22">Raffel</a> (1983)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Heroes have lived before Agamemnon lived,<br>
But all of them are lost somewhere in the night,<br>
Unwept, unknown, unless they had a poet<br>
<span class="tab">To tell what was their story.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/odesofhorace00hora_1/page/290/mode/2up?q=%22heroes+have+lived%22">Ferry</a> (1997)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab">Many brave men <br>
Llived before Agamemnon. <br>
But all of them, unwept and unknown, <br>
<span class="tab">are shrouded in eternal night <br>
<span class="tab"><span class="tab">for lack of a sacred bard.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/completeodessati0000hora/page/174/mode/2up?q=%22lived+before+agamemnon%22">Alexander</a> (1999)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Many brave men lived before Agamemnon:<br>
but all are imprisoned in unending night,<br>
<span class="tab">all of them are unwept and unknown,<br>
<span class="tab"><span class="tab">because of the lack of a sacred bard.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Latin/HoraceOdesBkIV.php#anchor_Toc40764110:~:text=Many%20brave%20men,a%20sacred%20bard.">Kline</a> (2015)]</blockquote><br>
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