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		<title>Dante Alighieri -- The Divine Comedy [Divina Commedia], Book 2 &#8220;Purgatorio,&#8221; Canto 23, l.  97ff (23.97-108) (1314) [tr. Ciardi (1961)]</title>
		<link>https://wist.info/dante-alighieri-poet/66883/</link>
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		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Feb 2024 19:12:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Dante Alighieri]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[brazenness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[breasts]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[clothing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[divine wrath]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[exposure]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[fashion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[immodesty]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[lewdness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[nakedness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[nipples]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[nudity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[shamelessness]]></category>
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		<description><![CDATA[O my dear brother, what is there to say? In vision I already see a time &#8212; and it is not far distant from this day &#8212; in which the pulpit shall denounce by writ the shameless jades that Florentines call ladies, who go about with breasts bare to the tit. What Moslem woman ever [&#8230;]]]></description>
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>O my dear brother, what is there to say?<br />
<span class="tab">In vision I already see a time &#8212;<br />
<span class="tab">and it is not far distant from this day &#8212;<br />
in which the pulpit shall denounce by writ<br />
<span class="tab">the shameless jades that Florentines call ladies,<br />
<span class="tab">who go about with breasts bare to the tit.<br />
What Moslem woman ever has required<br />
<span class="tab">a priestly discipline, or any other,<br />
<span class="tab">before she would go decently attired?<br />
But if the chippies only could foresee<br />
<span class="tab">swift Heaven&#8217;s punishment, they&#8217;d have their mouths<br />
<span class="tab">already open to howl misery.</p>
<p><em>[O dolce frate, che vuo’ tu ch’io dica?<br />
<span class="tab">Tempo futuro m’è già nel cospetto,<br />
<span class="tab">cui non sarà quest’ora molto antica,<br />
nel qual sarà in pergamo interdetto<br />
<span class="tab">a le sfacciate donne fiorentine<br />
<span class="tab">l’andar mostrando con le poppe il petto.<br />
Quai barbare fuor mai, quai saracine,<br />
<span class="tab">cui bisognasse, per farle ir coperte,<br />
<span class="tab">o spiritali o altre discipline?<br />
Ma se le svergognate fosser certe<br />
<span class="tab">di quel che ’l ciel veloce loro ammanna,<br />
<span class="tab">già per urlare avrian le bocche aperte.]</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></em></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p>
<br><b>Dante Alighieri</b> (1265-1321) Italian poet<br><i>The Divine Comedy [Divina Commedia]</i>, Book 2 <i>&#8220;Purgatorio,&#8221;</i> Canto 23, l.  97ff (23.97-108) (1314) [tr. Ciardi (1961)] 
									<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(<a href="https://archive.org/details/purgatorio00dant/page/236/mode/2up?view=theater&q=%22o+my+dear+brother%22" target="_blank">Source</a>)
										<br><br><span class="cite">
						

Forese Donati speaking to Dante, anticipating the "future" (already-past) travails of Florence in the early 1300s, apparently brought about (in part) by the city's shameless women being scantily clad (though no such church edict survives in the record).<br><br

(<a href="https://it.wikisource.org/wiki/Divina_Commedia/Purgatorio/Canto_XXIII#:~:text=O%20dolce%20frate,le%20bocche%20aperte">Source (Italian)</a>). Alternate translations:<br><br>

<blockquote><span class="tab">O, Brother! shall I tell, or hide my thought? <br>
The horrible display that Fancy views, <br>
Which soon the pregnant moments will produce,<br>
<span class="tab">And Impudence and Pride's disgraceful lot.<br>
<span class="tab">Soon a stern Voice will teach the shameless kind<br>
A decent covering, as they may, to find,<br>
<span class="tab">Their naked shoulders from the Sun to hide!<br>
Was it amongst Barbarians ever known,<br>
That nought but threats can bind the modest Zone,<br>
<span class="tab">On the young virgin and the plighted Bride?<br>
<span class="tab">But if these dainty Dames could read the Skies,<br>
And spy the slumb'ring tempest soon to rise,<br>
<span class="tab">Those lips that whisper Love, would shriek Despair.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/divinacommediad00unkngoog/page/n292/mode/2up?q=%22hide+my+thought%3F%22&view=theater">Boyd</a> (1802), st. 19-21] </blockquote><br>

<blockquote><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab">O sweet brother!<br>
What wouldst thou have me say? A time to come<br>
<span class="tab">Stands full within my view, to which this hour<br>
<span class="tab">Shall not be counted of an ancient date,<br>
When from the pulpit shall be loudly warn’d<br>
<span class="tab">Th’ unblushing dames of Florence, lest they bare<br>
<span class="tab">Unkerchief’d bosoms to the common gaze.<br>
What savage women hath the world e’er seen,<br>
<span class="tab">What Saracens, for whom there needed scourge<br>
<span class="tab">Of spiritual or other discipline,<br>
<span class="tab">To force them walk with cov’ring on their limbs!<br>
But did they see, the shameless ones, that Heav’n<br>
<span class="tab">Wafts on swift wing toward them, while I speak,<br>
<span class="tab">Their mouths were op’d for howling.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.gutenberg.org/files/8795/8795-h/8795-h.htm#cantoII.23:~:text=O%20sweet%20brother,op%E2%80%99d%20for%20howling">Cary</a> (1814)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Oh dear brother! what shall I say to thee?<br>
<span class="tab">A future time now within my view,<br>
<span class="tab">To which the present hour will be but new,<br>
When interdict will issue from the chair<br>
<span class="tab">To Florence ladies of effrontery,<br>
<span class="tab">With naked bosoms, where the pays you spy.<br>
Barbarians and Saracens were there e'er<br>
<span class="tab">Forced to go covered, and their right mind in,<br>
<span class="tab">By spiritual or other discipline?<br>
Their future lot could but the shameless see,<br>
<span class="tab">What the swift Heaven is bringing on its wing,<br>
<span class="tab">To howl their mouths would soon be opening.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/comedyofdanteal00dant/page/268/mode/2up?q=%22oh+dear+brother%22">Bannerman</a> (1850)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>O brother sweet, what wilt thou have me say?<br>
<span class="tab">A future time is in my sight already,<br>
<span class="tab">To which this hour will not be very old,<br>
When from the pulpit shall be interdicted<br>
<span class="tab">To the unblushing womankind of Florence<br>
<span class="tab">To go about displaying breast and paps.<br>
What savages were e'er, what Saracens,<br>
<span class="tab">Who stood in need, to make them covered go,<br>
<span class="tab">Of spiritual or other discipline?<br>
But if the shameless women were assured<br>
<span class="tab">Of what swift Heaven prepares for them, already<br>
<span class="tab">Wide open would they have their mouths to howl.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Divine_Comedy_(Longfellow_1867)/Volume_2/Canto_23#:~:text=O%20brother%20sweet,mouths%20to%20howl%3B">Longfellow</a> (1867)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>O brother dear, what wouldst have further told?<br>
<span class="tab">A future time already do I see,<br>
<span class="tab">In which the present day will not be old. <br>
When in the Church they'll publish a decree<br>
<span class="tab">Against the insolent lady Florentines,<br>
<span class="tab">Not to expose their breasts for all to see. <br>
When were Barbarians seen or Saracens,<br>
<span class="tab">To whom was needed clothing to enforce.<br>
<span class="tab">Or spiritual, or other disciplines?<br>
But if the shameless ones could see the course<br>
<span class="tab">Which Heaven prepareth for them speedily.<br>
<span class="tab">Now would begin their howlings of remorse.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/divinecomedyofda00dantrich/page/220/mode/2up?q=%22O+brother+dear%2C%22">Minchin</a> (1885)]  </blockquote><br>

<blockquote>O sweet brother, what wouldst thou that I say? A future time is already in my sight, to which this hour will not be very old, in which from the pulpit it shall be forbidden to the brazen-faced dames of Florence to go displaying the bosom with the paps. What Barbarian, what Saracen women were there ever who required either spiritual or other discipline to make them go covered? But if the shameless ones were aware of that which the swift heaven is preparing for them, already would they have their mouths open for howling.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1996/1996-h/1996-h.htm#cantoII.XXIII:~:text=O%20sweet%20brother,open%20for%20howling.">Norton</a> (1892)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote><span class="tab">O sweet brother, what would st thou have me say? Already in my vision is a time to come to which this hour shall not be very old,<br>
<span class="tab">when the brazen-faced women of Florence shall be forbidden from the pulpit to go abroad showing their breasts with the paps.<br>
<span class="tab">What Barbary, what Saracen women ever lived, to whom either spiritual, or other discipline were necessary, to make them go covered?<br>
<span class="tab">But if the shameless creatures were assured of what swift heaven is preparing for them, already would they have their mouths open to howl.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/purgatorioofdant00dant_0/page/290/mode/2up?q=%22O+sweet+brother%22">Okey</a> (1901)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>O sweet brother, what wilt thou have me say? A coming time is already before my eyes to which this hour will not be very old when from the pulpit it shall be forbidden to the brazen women of Florence to go showing the breast with the paps. What barbarous women, what Saracens, ever were there that needed, to make them go covered, spiritual disciplines or any other? But had the shameless creatures knowledge of what the swift heavens prepare for them, they would have their mouths open already for howling.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/iipurgatoriowith00dant/page/300/mode/2up?q=%22o+sweet+brother%22">Sinclair</a> (1939)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>O sweet brother, what would'st thou have me say? <br>
<span class="tab">A time to come already I see indeed, <br>
<span class="tab">Wherefrom this hour shall not be far away.<br>
In which from pulpit shall it be forbid<br>
<span class="tab">To the unashamed women of Florence then<br>
<span class="tab">To go showing the breast with paps not hid.<br>
What woman of Barbary, what Saracen,<br>
<span class="tab">did ever need, to make her go covered, <br>
<span class="tab">Spiritual or other regimen?<br>
But if the unabashed ones were assured<br>
<span class="tab">Of what swift heaven prepares for them on high<br>
<span class="tab">Their mouths would open and their howls be heard.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/portabledante00dant/page/308/mode/2up?q=%22o+sweet+brother%22">Binyon</a> (1943)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Brother of mine, what wilt thou have me say?<br>
<span class="tab">This hour shall not be very old perhaps<br>
<span class="tab">Ere time shall bring what I foresee to-day:<br>
A pulpit interdict, no less, which claps<br>
<span class="tab">Down on our brazen jades of Florentines<br>
<span class="tab">Flaunting unveiled the bosom and the paps.<br>
What female Turk or Berber e'er showed signs<br>
<span class="tab">Of needing to be covered up by force<br>
<span class="tab">Of spiritual or other disciplines?<br>
But could these wantons know what Heaven's swift course<br>
<span class="tab">Prepares for them, they'd have their mouths ajar<br>
<span class="tab">Already, fit to bellow themselves hoarse.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/divinecomedy0002unse/page/248/mode/2up?q=%22brother+of+mine%22">Sayers</a> (1955)] </blockquote><br>

<blockquote>O sweet brother, what would you have me say? Already in my vision is a future time, to which this hour shall not be very old, when the brazen-faced women of Florence shall be forbidden from the pulpit to go displaying their breasts with the papas. What Barbarian, what Saracen women were there ever, who required either spiritual or other discipline to make them go covered? But if the shameless creatures were assured of what swift heaven is preparing for them, already would they have their mouths open to howl.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Divine_Comedy_II_Purgatorio_Vol_II_P/2Q48EAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22o%20sweet%20brother%22">Singleton</a> (1973)] </blockquote><br>

<blockquote>My dear brother, how can I tell you this:<br>
<span class="tab">I see a future time -- it won't be long --<br>
<span class="tab">in which bans from the pulpit shall clamp down<br>
on those ladies of Florence who, bold-faced,<br>
<span class="tab">now walk our city streets as they parade<br>
<span class="tab">their bosom to the tits! What barbarous girl,<br>
what female Saracen, had to be taught<br>
<span class="tab">spiritual discipline, or anything,<br>
<span class="tab">to keep her body decently concealed?<br>
But if these shameless creatures only knew<br>
<span class="tab">what the swift heavens have in store for them,<br>
<span class="tab">they would by now be screaming their heads off!<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/dantealighierisd03dant/page/228/mode/2up?q=%22my+dear+brother%22&view=theater">Musa</a> (1981)] </blockquote><br>

<blockquote>O gentle brother, what do you want me to say? <br>
<span class="tab">Already I can see a time ahead, <br>
<span class="tab">Before the present hour is very old,<br>
In which the impudent women of Florence <br>
<span class="tab">Will be preached against from the pulpit because <br>
<span class="tab">They go about showing their breasts to the nipples.<br>
What women of Barbary, what Saracens <br>
<span class="tab">Ever needed, to make them go covered, <br>
<span class="tab">Either spiritual or other discipline?<br>
But if the shameless creatures were assured <br>
<span class="tab">Of what swift heaven is getting ready for them, <br>
<span class="tab">They would have their mouths open already, to howl.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/divinecomedy0000dant/page/300/mode/2up?q=%22o+gentle+brother%22">Sisson</a> (1981)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab">O <br>
sweet brother, what would you have had me say? <br>
<span class="tab">A future time’s already visible <br>
<span class="tab">to me -- a time not too far-off from now -- <br>
when, from the pulpit, it shall be forbidden <br>
<span class="tab">to those immodest ones -- Florentine women -- <br>
<span class="tab">to go displaying bosoms with bare paps. <br>
What ordinances -- spiritual, civil -- <br>
<span class="tab">were ever needed by barbarian or <br>
<span class="tab">Saracen women to make them go covered? <br>
But if those shameless ones had certain knowledge <br>
<span class="tab">of what swift Heaven’s readying for them, <br>
<span class="tab">then they would have mouths open now to howl.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/purgatorio0000dant_m5q7/page/204/mode/2up?q=barbagia">Mandelbaum</a> (1982)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote><span class="tab">O sweet brother, what would you have me say? Already I foresee a time to come, to which this time will not be too distant, when, from the pulpits, the brazen women of Florence will be forbidden to go round displaying their breasts and nipples.<br>
<span class="tab">When was there ever a Saracen woman, or woman of Barbary, who needed disciplining spiritually or otherwise, to force her to cover herself? But the shameless creatures would already have their mouths open to howl.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Italian/DantPurg22to28.php#:~:text=O%20sweet%20brother,open%20to%20howl%2C">Kline</a> (2002)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote><span class="tab">O dear brother, what can I say? A future time is already in my sight when this hour will not seem very ancient,
when from the pulpit it will be forbidden to the brazen Florentine women to walk about showing their chests with their breasts.<br>
<span class="tab">What barbarian women, what Saracens ever needed either spiritual or other penalties to make them go covered up?<br>
<span class="tab">But if those shameless ones knew what the swift heavens are preparing for them, they would already have opened their mouths to howl.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/divinecomedyofda0002dant_d4k9/page/386/mode/2up?q=%22o+dear+brother%22">Durling</a> (2003)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>What, dearest brother, would you have me say? <br>
<span class="tab">A future time, already in my sight, <br>
<span class="tab">will come (when our time’s still not history),<br>
when, from the pulpit, there’ll be issued bans <br>
<span class="tab">forbidding bare-faced Florence girls to go <br>
<span class="tab">with blatant breasts and both their boobs on show.<br>
What mere barbarians or Saracens <br>
<span class="tab">required a priest or threat of on-spot fines <br>
<span class="tab">to make them cover up when they go out!<br>
If, though, these brazen creatures only guessed <br>
<span class="tab">what Heaven so swiftly will bring down on them, <br>
<span class="tab">then they’d already howl with open mouths.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/divinecomedy2pur0000dant/page/216/mode/2up?q=%22what+dearest+brother%22">Kirkpatrick</a> (2007)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>O sweet brother, what would you have me say?<br>
<span class="tab">In my vision even now I see a time,<br>
<span class="tab">before this hour shall be very old,<br>
when from the pulpit it shall be forbidden<br>
<span class="tab">for the brazen ladies of Florence<br>
<span class="tab">to flaunt their nipples with their breasts.<br>
What barbarous women, what Saracens,<br>
<span class="tab">have ever needed spiritual instruction<br>
<span class="tab">or other rules, to walk about in proper dress?<br>
But if these shameless creatures knew<br>
<span class="tab">what the swift heavens are preparing, even now<br>
<span class="tab">their mouths would be spread open in a howl.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://dante.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/dante/campuscgi/mpb/GetCantoSection.pl?INP_POEM=Purg&INP_SECT=23&INP_START=97&INP_LEN=12&LANG=0">Hollander/Hollander</a> (2007)] </blockquote><br>

<blockquote>O, my sweet brother, what can you ask me to say?<br>
<span class="tab">Looking into the future, I already see --<br>
<span class="tab">And the hour will not be long in coming, I believe --<br>
When priests in our pulpits will forbid Florence's lewd<br>
<span class="tab">And insolent women from going about the streets,<br>
<span class="tab">Their breasts bare well below the nipples.<br>
Were there ever barbarian women, or Turks,<br>
<span class="tab">Who needed heavy discipline -- by priests<br>
<span class="tab">Or by law -- to keep them decently covered? But such<br>
Disgraceful creatures, should they realize <br>
<span class="tab">For sure what quick-handed Heaven has ready for them,<br>
<span class="tab">They'd now be ready to open their mouths and howl!<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Divine_Comedy/WZyBj-s9PfsC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22my%20sweet%20brother%22">Raffel</a> (2010)] </blockquote><br>
						</span>
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                <!-- DCH Modify the title to give the category (quote author) at the beginning of it. -->
		<title>Euripides -- Bacchæ [Βάκχαι], l.  485ff (405 BC) [tr. Arrowsmith (1960)]</title>
		<link>https://wist.info/euripides/59955/</link>
		<comments>https://wist.info/euripides/59955/#respond</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Mar 2023 18:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Euripides]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ceremony]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[corruption]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[daylight]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[debauchery]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[lewdness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[night]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[ritual]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[seduction]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[sexism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[shame]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[women]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[worship]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[PENTHEUS: Do you hold your rites during the day or night? DIONYSUS: Mostly by night. The darkness is well suited to devotion. PENTHEUS: Better suited to lechery and seducing women. DIONYSUS: You can find debauchery by daylight too. [Πενθεύς: τὰ δ᾽ ἱερὰ νύκτωρ ἢ μεθ᾽ ἡμέραν τελεῖς; Διόνυσος: νύκτωρ τὰ πολλά: σεμνότητ᾽ ἔχει σκότος. Πενθεύς: [&#8230;]]]></description>
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PENTHEUS: Do you hold your rites<br />
<span class="tab">during the day or night?<br />
DIONYSUS: Mostly by night.<br />
<span class="tab">The darkness is well suited to devotion.<br />
PENTHEUS: Better suited to lechery and seducing women.<br />
DIONYSUS: You can find debauchery by daylight too.</p>
<p>[Πενθεύς: τὰ δ᾽ ἱερὰ νύκτωρ ἢ μεθ᾽ ἡμέραν τελεῖς;<br />
Διόνυσος: νύκτωρ τὰ πολλά: σεμνότητ᾽ ἔχει σκότος.<br />
Πενθεύς: τοῦτ᾽ ἐς γυναῖκας δόλιόν ἐστι καὶ σαθρόν.<br />
Διόνυσος: κἀν ἡμέρᾳ τό γ᾽ αἰσχρὸν ἐξεύροι τις ἄν.]</span></span></p>
<br><b>Euripides</b> (485?-406? BC) Greek tragic dramatist<br><i>Bacchæ</i> [Βάκχαι], l.  485ff (405 BC) [tr. Arrowsmith (1960)] 
									<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(<a href="https://archive.org/details/euripidesv00euri/page/180/mode/2up?q=%22day+or+night%22" target="_blank">Source</a>)
										<br><br><span class="cite">
						

(<a href="https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0091%3Acard%3D476#:~:text=%CE%B4%E1%BD%B2%20%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%AC%CF%86%CE%BF%CF%81%CE%BF%CE%B9.-,%CE%A0%CE%B5%CE%BD%CE%B8%CE%B5%CF%8D%CF%82,%CE%94%CE%B9%CF%8C%CE%BD%CF%85%CF%83%CE%BF%CF%82%0A%0A%CE%BA%E1%BC%80%CE%BD%20%E1%BC%A1%CE%BC%CE%AD%CF%81%E1%BE%B3%20%CF%84%CF%8C%20%CE%B3%E1%BE%BD%20%CE%B1%E1%BC%B0%CF%83%CF%87%CF%81%E1%BD%B8%CE%BD%20%E1%BC%90%CE%BE%CE%B5%CF%8D%CF%81%CE%BF%CE%B9%20%CF%84%CE%B9%CF%82%20%E1%BC%84%CE%BD.,-%CE%A0%CE%B5%CE%BD%CE%B8%CE%B5%CF%8D%CF%82%0A%0A%CE%B4%CE%AF%CE%BA%CE%B7%CE%BD%20%CF%83%CE%B5">Source (Greek)</a>). Alternate translations:<br><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: By night or day these sacred rites perform'st thou ?<br>
BACCHUS: Mostly by nighty for venerable is darkness.<br>
PENTHEUS: To women this is treacherous and unsafe.<br>
BACCHUS: E'en in the broadest day may shame be found.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/nineteentragedi00wodhgoog/page/366/mode/2up?q=%22By++night++or++day%22">Wodhull</a> (1809)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: Do you perform the rites by night or by day?<br>
DIONYSUS: Mostly by night; darkness conveys awe.<br>
PENTHEUS: This is treacherous towards women, and unsound.<br>
DIONYSUS: Even during the day someone may devise what is shameful.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0092%3Acard%3D476#:~:text=Pentheus%0A%5B485%5D%20Do,what%20is%20shameful.">Buckley</a> (1850)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: Performest thou these rites by night or day?<br>
DIONYSUS: Most part by night -- night hath more solemn awe.<br>
PENTHEUS: A crafty rotten plot to catch our women.<br>
DIONYSUS: Even in the day bad men can do bad deeds.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/bacchae0000euri_x9h8/page/18/mode/2up?q=%22night+or+day%22">Milman</a> (1865)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: Dost thou perform thy rites by day; or night?<br>
DIONYSUS: Chiefly by night; darkness gives dignity.<br>
PENTHEUS: Craft rather and seduction it denotes.<br>
DIONYSUS: Base acts are oft made manifest by day.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/bacchaerogers00euri/page/22/mode/2up?q=%22day+or+night%22">Rogers</a> (1872), l. 462ff]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: Is it by night or day thou performest these devotions?<br>
DIONYSUS: By night mostly; darkness lends solemnity.<br>
PENTHEUS: Calculated to entrap and corrupt women.<br>
DIONYSUS: Day too for that matter may discover shame.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Plays_of_Euripides_(Coleridge)/The_Bacchantes#:~:text=Pen.%20Is%20it,may%20discover%20shame.">Coleridge</a> (1891)] </blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: By night or day dost thou perform his rites? ⁠<br>
DIONYSUS: Chiefly by night: gloom lends solemnity.<br>
PENTHEUS: Ay -- and for women snares of lewdness too.<br>
DIONYSUS: In the day too may lewdness be devised.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Tragedies_of_Euripides_(Way)/The_Bacchanals#:~:text=By%20night%20or%20day%20dost%20thou%20perform%20his%20rites%3F">Way</a> (1898)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: How is thy worship held, by night or day?<br>
DIONYSUS: Most oft by night; 'tis a majestic thing,<br>
<span class="tab">The darkness.<br>
PENTHEUS: Ha! with women worshipping?<br>
<span class="tab">'Tis craft and rottenness!<br>
DIONYSUS:  By day no less,<br>
<span class="tab">Whoso will seek may find unholiness.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/35173/pg35173-images.html#:~:text=not%20thy%20way.-,Pentheus.,By%20day%20no%20less%2C%0AWhoso%20will%20seek%20may%20find%20unholiness.,-Pentheus.">Murray</a> (1902)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: Do you celebrate your sacred acts at night or by day?<br>
DIONYSUS: At night for the most party. Darkness possesses solemnity.<br>
PENTHEUS: Darkness for women is deceitful and corrupt!<br>
DIONYSUS: Even in daytime one could discover disgraceful behavior.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/bacchae0000euri_w7z7/page/64/mode/2up?q=%22night+or+by+day%22">Kirk</a> (1970)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: Do you celebrate your mysteries by night or by day?<br>
DIONYSUS: Chiefly by night. Darkness induces religious awe.<br>
PENTHEUS: For women darkness is treacherous and impure.<br>
DIONYSUS: Impurity can be practiced by daylight too.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/bacchae0000phil/page/196/mode/2up?q=%22night+or+by+day%22">Vellacott</a> (1973)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: These sacred practices of your god, the worship,<br>
<span class="tab">The rites of great devotion, do they<br>
<span class="tab">Hold at night, or in the day.<br>
DIONYSUS: [...] We hold our rites mostly at night<br>
<span class="tab">Because it is cooler. And the lamps<br>
<span class="tab">Lend atmosphere and feeling to the heart in worship.<br>
[...]<br>
PENTHEUS: And I say night hours are dangerous<br>
<span class="tab">Lascivious hours, lechery ....<br>
DIONYSUS: You'll find debauchery in daylight, too.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/bacchaeofeuripid00soyi/page/44/mode/2up?q=%22these+sacred+practices%22">Soyinka</a> (1973)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: The rites -- at night or by day you perform them?<br>
DIONYSUS: At night, mostly; there’s majesty in darkness.<br>
PENTHEUS: And for women there’s trickery and smut.<br>
DIONYSUS: Even by day one may discover shame.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20070928000447/http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mattneub/downloads/bacchae.pdf">Neuburg</a> (1988)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: Do you perform your mysteries<br>
<span class="tab">during the day or by night?<br>
DIONYSUS: Mostly at night.<br>
<span class="tab">The dark is more conducive to worship.<br>
PENTHEUS: You mean to lechery and bringing out the filth in women.<br>
DIONYSUS: Those who look for filth, can find it at the height of noon.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/bacchae0000euri_p3f3/page/28/mode/2up?q=%22day+or+by+night%22">Cacoyannis</a> (1982)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: Do you worship in daylight or at night?<br>
DIONYSUS: Mostly at night. Darkness is most sacred.<br>
PENTHEUS: That is treacherous and unwholesome for women.<br>
DIONYSUS: Some find shame even in daylight.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/bacchae0000euri_h0w4/page/18/mode/2up?q=%22daylight+or+at+night%22">Blessington</a> (1993)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: Do you celebrate these sacred rites at night or in the day?<br>
THE STRANGER: At night mostly, since darkness induces devotion.<br>
PENTHEUS: No, darkness is devious and corrupts women.<br>
THE STRANGER: Even in the day someone could devise shameful deeds.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/bacchaeofeuripid0000euri/page/46/mode/2up?q=%22night+or+in+the+day%22">Esposito</a> (1998)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: You practice this cult by night or by day?<br>
DIONYSUS: Mostly at night. Darkness lends solemnity.<br>
PENTHEUS: Darkness is just a filthy trap for women.<br>
DIONYSUS: Some people can dig up dirt in daytime, too.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/bacchae0000euri_s0g4/page/18/mode/2up?q=%22night+or+by+day%3F%22">Woodruff</a> (1999)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: Do you perform the rites by day? -- or night?<br>
DIONYSUS: Mostly at night -- because the darkness has its holiness.<br>
PENTHEUS: It's treacherous, for women, and corrupts them.<br>
DIONYSUS: What's shameful can be found even by light of day.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/bacchaeotherplay0000euri_p0i4/page/262/mode/2up?q=%22day+or+night%22">Gibbons/Segal</a> (2000), l. 571ff]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: Do you practice your rites at night or by day?<br>
DIONYSUS: Mostly at night: darkness lends solemnity.<br>
PENTHEUS: This is an immoral trick aimed at women.<br>
DIONYSUS: Someone could engage in shameful deeds even by day.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/bacchaeiphigenia00euri/page/54/mode/2up">Kovacs</a> (2002)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: And you perform these practices at night?<br>
DIONYSUS: Man's true nature's seen in darkness not in light.<br>
PENTHEUS: While darkness shrouds a woman's true duplicity.<br>
DIONYSUS: Duplicity's not found in night exclusively.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/bacchai0000euri/page/34/mode/2up?q=%22practices+at+night%22">Teevan</a> (2002)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: Tell me, when do you hold your worship? By clear day, or dark night?<br>
DIONYSUS: Mostly by night -- it is a majestic time.<br>
PENTHEUS: Indeed! A majestic time to take advantage of women. Shameful!<br>
DIONYSUS: There are enough shameful things done by day. And enough shameful thoughts in your head, I am sure!<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.google.com/books/edition/Euripides_The_Bacchae/_2TKSJfPDT4C?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover&bsq=%22when%20do%20you%20hold%20your%20worship%3F%22">Rao/Wolf</a> (2004)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: These ... holy orgies of yours… do you perform them during the day or in the night?<br>
DIONYSUS: Most of them during the night.  Darkness adds a certain modesty.<br>
PENTHEUS: That’s quite a dubious thing for the women… and rather lecherous, I’d say.<br>
DIONYSUS: Shame, of course can be seen during the day, too, if it exists and if one were to look for it.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://bacchicstage.wordpress.com/euripides/bacchae/#:~:text=Pentheus%3A%0AThese,look%20for%20it.">Theodoridis</a> (2005)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: Do you conduct the mysteries in the night or by day?<br>
DIONYSUS: Us'ally by night, for darkness holds reverence.<br>
PENTHEUS: Is this thing deceitful or unwholesome towards women?<br>
DIONYSUS: One might also uncover shameful things i' the day.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://euripidesofathens.blogspot.com/2008/01/scene-2.html#:~:text=P%3A%20Do%20you%20conduct%20the%20mysteries%20in%20the%20night%20or%20by%20day%3F%0AD%3A%20Us%27ally%20by%20night%2C%20for%20darkness%20holds%20reverence.%0AP%3A%20Is%20this%20thing%20deceitful%20or%20unwholesome%20towards%20women%3F%0AD%3A%20One%20might%20also%20uncover%20shameful%20things%20i%27%20the%20day.%20(glare)">Valerie</a> (2005)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: When you dance these rites,<br>
<span class="tab">is it at night or during daylight hours?<br>
DIONYSUS: Mainly at night. Shadows confer solemnity.<br>
PENTHEUS: And deceive the women. It's all corrupt!<br>
DIONYSUS: One can do shameful things in daylight, too.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.google.com/books/edition/Bacchae/o4JeCg6u18oC?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover&bsq=%22dance%20these%20rites%22">Johnston</a> (2008), l. 604ff]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: These mysteries. Do you practise them by day, or night?<br>
DIONYSUS: Mostly by night. Dark is better for devotion.<br>
PENTHEUS: Better for lechery and the taking of women.<br>
DIONYSUS: That happens in daylight too.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/bacchae0000euri_p3z6/page/28/mode/2up?q=%22by+day+or+night%22">Robertson</a> (2014)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: And are these rites conducted by day or by night?<br>
DIONYSUS: Night, for the most part. It’s so much more ... spiritual. Good for devotion.<br>
PENTHEUS: The night’s a trap for women’s virtue.<br>
DIONYSUS: And the day isn’t? You don’t get out much, do you?<br>
[tr. <a href="https://the-mercurian.com/2019/12/13/the-bacchae/#:~:text=PENTHEUS%3A%20And%20are,much%2C%20do%20you%3F">Pauly</a> (2019)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: Do you perform your rituals by day or night?<br>
DIONYSUS: By night. We believe that darkness is holy.<br>
PENTHEUS: It's a cunning time to force filth upon women.<br>
DIONYSUS: Vice thrives in daylight, too.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Bacchae_of_Euripides/UmCTDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover&bsq=%22by%20day%20or%20night%22">Behr/Foster</a> (2019)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>PENTHEUS: Do you perform the sacred rites <i>[hiera]</i> by night or by day?<br>
DIONYSUS: Mostly by night; darkness conveys awe.<br>
PENTHEUS: This is treacherous towards women, and unsound.<br>
DIONYSUS: Even during the day you can find what is shameful.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://chs.harvard.edu/primary-source/euripides-bacchae-sb/#:~:text=Pentheus%0A485%20Do,what%20is%20shameful.">Buckley/Sens/Nagy</a> (2020)]</blockquote><br>
						</span>
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                <!-- DCH Modify the title to give the category (quote author) at the beginning of it. -->
		<title>Martial -- Epigrams [Epigrammata], Book  7, epigram  30 (7.30) (AD 92) [tr. Bohn&#8217;s (1871)]</title>
		<link>https://wist.info/martial/38735/</link>
		<comments>https://wist.info/martial/38735/#respond</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2018 00:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Martial]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[foreigners]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[lasciviousness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[lewdness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[licentiousness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[sex]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[shaming]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[slut]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[xenophile]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[You grant your favours, Caelia, to Parthians, to Germans, to Dacians; and despise not the homage of Cilicians and Cappadocians. To you journeys the Egyptian gallant from the city of Alexandria, and the swarthy Indian from the waters of the Eastern Ocean; nor do you shun the embraces of circumcised Jews; nor does the Alan, [&#8230;]]]></description>
        <!-- DCH Insert author info (category description) then (Source) and then put the extra info (MORE) below that. -->
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You grant your favours, Caelia, to Parthians, to Germans, to Dacians;<br />
and despise not the homage of Cilicians and Cappadocians.<br />
To you journeys the Egyptian gallant from the city of Alexandria,<br />
and the swarthy Indian from the waters of the Eastern Ocean;<br />
nor do you shun the embraces of circumcised Jews;<br />
nor does the Alan, on his Sarmatic steed, pass by you.<br />
How comes it that, though a Roman girl,<br />
no attention on the part of a Roman citizen is agreeable to you? </p>
<p><em>[Das Parthis, das Germanis, das, Caelia, Dacis,<br />
nec Cilicum spernis Cappadocumque toros;<br />
et tibi de Pharia Memphiticus urbe fututor<br />
navigat, a rubris et niger Indus aquis;<br />
nec recutitorum fugis inguina Iudaeorum,<br />
nec te Sarmatico transit Alanus equo.<br />
qua ratione facis cum sis Romans puella,<br />
quod Romana tibi mentula nulla placet?]</em></p>
<br><b>Martial</b> (AD c.39-c.103) Spanish Roman poet, satirist, epigrammatist [Marcus Valerius Martialis]<br><i>Epigrams [Epigrammata]</i>, Book  7, epigram  30 (7.30) (AD 92) [tr. Bohn&#8217;s (1871)] 
									<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(<a href="https://books.google.com/books?id=LzXgAAAAMAAJ&lpg=PA338&dq=martial%20everywhere%20nowhere&pg=PA319#v=onepage&q=xxx&f=false" target="_blank">Source</a>)
										<br><br><span class="cite">
						

(<a href="https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A2008.01.0506%3Abook%3D7%3Apoem%3D30">Source (Latin)</a>). Alternate translations:

<blockquote>For Parthians, Germans thou thy nets wilt spread;<br>
<span class="tab">Wilt Cappadocian or Cilician wed; <br>
From Memphis comes a whipster unto thee,<br> 
<span class="tab">And a black Indian from the Red Sea;<br>
Nor dost thou fly the circumcised Jew; <br>
<span class="tab">Nor can the Muscovite once pass by you;<br>
Why being a Roman lass dost do thus? tell <br>
<span class="tab">Is't cause no Roman knack can please so well?<br> 
[tr. <a href="https://books.google.com/books?id=LzXgAAAAMAAJ&lpg=PA338&dq=martial%20everywhere%20nowhere&pg=PA319#v=onepage&q=xxx&f=false">Fletcher</a>]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>You grant your favours to Parthians, you grant them to Germans, you grant them, Caelia, to Dacians, and you do not spurn the couch of Cilicians and Cappadocians; and for you from his Egyptian city comes sailing the gallant of Memphis, and the black Indian from the Red Sea; nor do you shun the lecheries of circumcised Jews, and the Alan on his Sarmatian steed does not pass you by. What is your reason that, although you are a Roman girl, no Roman lewdness has attraction for you?<br>
[tr. <a href="https://books.google.com/books?id=w4ZfAAAAMAAJ&vq=xxx&pg=PA443#v=snippet&q=xxx&f=false">Ker</a> (1919)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Caelia, you love a Teuton swain,<br>
An Asiatic stirs your pity,<br>
For you swart Indians cross the main,<br>
<span class="tab">Copts flock to you from Pharos' city.<br>
A Jew, a Scythian cavalier,<br>
Can please you -- but I can't discover<br>
Why you, a Roman, are austere<br>
<span class="tab">To none except a Roman lover.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://quod.lib.umich.edu/g/genpub/AFE5993.0001.001/228?rgn=full+text;view=image;q1=xxx">Pott & Wright</a> (1921)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>You give your favors to Parthians, you given them to Germans, Caelia, you give them to Dacians, nor do you despise the beds of Cilicians and Cappadocians; and to you comes sailing the fornicator of Memphis from his Pharian city and the black Indian from the Red Sea. Nor do you shun the loins of circumcised Jews nor does the Alan pass you by with his Sarmatian horse. Why is it, sinc eyou are a Roman girl, that no Roman cock is to your liking?<br>
[tr. <a href="https://dokumen.pub/martial-epigrams-books-6-10-2-0674995562-9780674995567.html">Shackleton Bailey</a> (1993)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>You do Germans, and Parthians, and Dacians, Caelia,<br>
you don’t scorn Cappadocian, Cilician beds;<br>
and fuckers from Memphis, that Pharian city,<br>
and Red Sea’s black Indians sail towards you.<br>
You’d not flee the thighs of a circumcised Jew,<br>
not an Alan goes by, with Sarmatian horse too.<br>
What’s the reason, then, since you are a Roman,<br>
not one Roman member pleases you, woman?<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Latin/Martial.php#anchor_Toc123798978:~:text=You%20do%20Germans,pleases%20you%2C%20woman%3F">Kline</a> (2006), "Hard to Please"]</blockquote><br>



<blockquote>Barbarian hordes <i>en masse</i> you fuck,<br>
<span class="tab">Odd types into your bed you tuck.<br>
You take on blacks and Asian forces,<br>
<span class="tab">And Jews, and soldiers, and their horses.<br>
Yet you, voracious Roman chick,<br>
<span class="tab">Have never known a Roman dick.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://books.google.com/books?id=13X80r3_zQIC&lpg=PT15&ots=255W3rqbYV&dq=%22Odd%20types%20into%20your%20bed%20you%20tuck%22&pg=PT15#v=onepage&q=%22Odd%20types%20into%20your%20bed%20you%20tuck%22&f=false">Wills</a> (2008)]</blockquote><br>



<blockquote>You sleep with Germans, Parthians, and Dacians;<br>
Cilicians and Cappadocians get a screw;<br>
a Memphian fucker sails to you from Pharos;<br>
<span class="tab">a coal-black Indian from the Red Sea, too.<br>
You don't shun the pricks of circumcised Judeans;<br>
a Scythian on his horse won't pass you buy.<br>
Since you're a roman girl, why is it, Caelia,<br>
<span class="tab">you won't give any Roman cock a try?<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/selectedepigrams0000mart_b6d3/page/58/mode/2up?q=Germans">McLean</a> (2014)] </blockquote><br>




<blockquote>You grant your favours, Caelia, to all races -- <br>
<span class="tab">Parthians, Germans, Dacians share your graces.<br>
Cilicians, Cappadocians in your bed be,<br>
<span class="tab">And even a swarthy Indian from the Red Sea!<br>
From Egypt's Memphis one sails to your door,<br>
<span class="tab">And Jews, though circumcised, you'll not ignore,<br>
And that's not all! On his Samartian steed<br>
<span class="tab">No Scythian ever passed your door at speed.<br>
You are a Roman girl, so tell me true,<br>
<span class="tab">Do Roman weapons have no charms for you?<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.google.com/books/edition/Epigrams_of_Martial_Englished_by_Divers/ZLDoDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22sharp+vinegar+improves+the+appetite%22&pg=PA269&printsec=frontcover">Pitt-Kethley</a>]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>You'll fuck a Frog, a Kraut, a Jew,<br>
<span class="tab">A Gippo, a Brit, a Pakki too;<br>
Niggers and Russkies all go in your stew<br>
<span class="tab">But my prick's a Wop -- Caelia, fuck you!<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.google.com/books/edition/Epigrams_of_Martial/fZWq0MP5XQUC?gbpv=1&bsq=kraut">Sullivan</a>]</blockquote><br>

For more detailed commentary on the explicitly sexual nature of the epigram, see <a href="https://books.google.com/books?id=QTfjPEC4g6UC&lpg=PP1&dq=Gal%C3%A1n%20Vioque%20martial&pg=PA214#v=onepage&q=30&f=false">Vioque</a>, <em>Epigrammaton Liber VII</em>.

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