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                <!-- DCH Modify the title to give the category (quote author) at the beginning of it. -->
		<title>Bible, Vol. 1. Old Testament -- Book 22b. Sirach (Ecclesiasticus) 27: 4ff (Sir 27:4–7) [tr. NRSV (2021 ed.)]</title>
		<link>https://wist.info/bible-ot/85167/</link>
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		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2026 17:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Bible, Vol. 1. Old Testament]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[character]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[conversation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[feelings]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[praiseworthiness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[reason]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[self-expression]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[speaking]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[speech]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[talking]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[test]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[trial]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[When a sieve is shaken, the refuse appears; so does a person’s waste when he speaks. The kiln tests the potter’s vessels, and the test of a person is in his conversation. Its fruit discloses the cultivation of a tree; so does speech the thoughts of the human mind. Do not praise anyone before he [&#8230;]]]></description>
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When a sieve is shaken, the refuse appears;<br />
<span class="tab">so does a person’s waste when he speaks.<br />
The kiln tests the potter’s vessels,<br />
<span class="tab">and the test of a person is in his conversation.<br />
Its fruit discloses the cultivation of a tree;<br />
<span class="tab">so does speech the thoughts of the human mind.<br />
Do not praise anyone before he speaks,<br />
<span class="tab">for this is the way people are tested.</p>
<p>[Ἐν σείσματι κοσκίνου διαμένει κοπρία,<br />
<span class="tab">οὕτως σκύβαλα ἀνθρώπου ἐν λογισμῷ αὐτοῦ.<br />
σκεύη κεραμέως δοκιμάζει κάμινος,<br />
<span class="tab">καὶ πειρασμὸς ἀνθρώπου ἐν διαλογισμῷ αὐτοῦ.<br />
γεώργιον ξύλου ἐκφαίνει ὁ καρπὸς αὐτοῦ,<br />
<span class="tab">οὕτως λόγος ἐνθυμήματος καρδίας ἀνθρώπου.<br />
πρὸ λογισμοῦ μὴ ἐπαινέσῃς ἄνδρα·<br />
<span class="tab">οὗτος γὰρ πειρασμὸς ἀνθρώπων]</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p>
<br><b>The Bible (The Old Testament)</b> (14th - 2nd C BC) Judeo-Christian sacred scripture [Tanakh, Hebrew Bible], incl. the Apocrypha (Deuterocanonicals) <br>Book 22b. <i>Sirach (Ecclesiasticus)</i> 27: 4ff (Sir 27:4–7) [tr. NRSV (2021 ed.)] 
									<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(<a href="https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=sirach%2027%3A4-7&version=NRSVUE" target="_blank">Source</a>)
										<br><br><span class="cite">
						

More on the history and acceptance of this Apocryphal book <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Sirach">here</a> and <a href="https://archive.org/details/thejerusalembible1966/page/1034/mode/2up">here</a>.<br><br>

(<a href="https://tips.translation.bible/tip_verse/sir-274/">Source (Greek)</a>). Alternate translations:<br><br>

<blockquote><span class="tab">As when one sifteth with a sieve, the refuse remaineth; so the filth of man in his talk.<br>
<span class="tab">The furnace proveth the potter's vessels; so the trial of man is in his reasoning.<br>
<span class="tab">The fruit declareth if the tree have been dressed; so is the utterance of a conceit in the heart of man.<br>
<span class="tab">Praise no man before thou hearest him speak; for this is the trial of men.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Ecclesiasticus-Chapter-27/#4">KJV</a> (1611)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>As when one sifteth with a sieve, the dust will remain: <br>
<span class="tab">so will the perplexity of a man in his thoughts.<br>
The furnace trieth the potter's vessels, <br>
<span class="tab">and the trial of affliction just men.<br>
Be the dressing of a tree sheweth the fruit thereof, <br>
<span class="tab">so a word out of the thought of the heart of man.<br>
Praise not a man before he speaketh, <br>
<span class="tab">for this is the trial of men.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=sirach%2027%3A5-8&version=DRA">DRA</a> (1899), 27:5–8]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>In a shaken sieve the rubbish is left behind, <br>
<span class="tab">so too the defects of a man appear in his talk.<br>
The kiln tests the work of the potter, <br>
<span class="tab">the test of a man is in his conversation.<br>
The orchard where the tree grows is judged on the quality of its fruit, <br>
<span class="tab">similarly a man's words betray what he feels.<br>
Do not praise a man before he has spoken, <br>
<span class="tab">since this is the test of men.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.seraphim.my/bible/jb/JB-OT28%20SIRACH%20(GK).htm#:~:text=27%3A4%20In,test%20of%20men.">JB</a> (1966)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>In a shaken sieve the rubbish is left behind, <br>
<span class="tab">so too the defects of a person appear in speech.<br>
The kiln tests the work of the potter, <br>
<span class="tab">the test of a person is in conversation.<br>
The orchard where the tree grows is judged by its fruit, <br>
<span class="tab">similarly words betray what a person feels.<br>
Do not praise anyone who has not yet spoken, <br>
<span class="tab">since this is where people are tested.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.bibliacatolica.com.br/en/new-jerusalem-bible/ecclesiasticus/27/#:~:text=4.,people%20are%20tested.">NJB</a> (1985)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Your talk shows your faults; it is like a sieve that separates out the rubbish. The way you think shows your character just as surely as a kiln shows any flaws in the pottery being fired. You can tell how well a tree has been cared for by the fruit it bears, and you can tell a person's feelings by the way he expresses himself. Never praise anyone before you hear him talk; that is the real test.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=sirach%2027%3A4-7&version=GNT">GNT</a> (1992 ed.)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>When a sieve is shaken,<br>
rubbish remains behind;<br>
<span class="tab">so in the process of reasoning,<br>
<span class="tab">a person’s flaws appear.<br>
A kiln tests a potter’s jars,<br>
<span class="tab">and decision making tests a person.<br>
A tree’s fruit reveals<br>
how well it has been cultivated.<br>
<span class="tab">In the same way, reasoning makes plain<br>
<span class="tab">a person’s thoughts.<br>
Don’t praise people<br>
until after they present an argument,<br>
<span class="tab">for this is how people are tested.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=sirach%2027%3A4-7&version=CEB">CEB</a> (2011)]</blockquote><br>
						</span>
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		<title>Steele, Richard -- Essay (1713-04-08), The Guardian No.  24</title>
		<link>https://wist.info/steele-richard/27436/</link>
		<comments>https://wist.info/steele-richard/27436/#respond</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2014 13:22:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Steele, Richard]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[admiration]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[commendation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[compliment]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[flattery]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[folly]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[praise]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[praiseworthiness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[sycophancy]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Whenever you commend, add your reasons for doing so; it is this which distinguishes the approbation of a man of sense from the flattery of sycophants and admiration of fools.]]></description>
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whenever you commend, add your reasons for doing so; it is this which distinguishes the approbation of a man of sense from the flattery of sycophants and admiration of fools. </p>
<br><b>Richard Steele</b> (1672–1729) Anglo-Irish writer, journalist, playwright, politician<br>Essay (1713-04-08), <i>The Guardian</i> No.  24 
									<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(<a href="https://archive.org/details/guardianwithnote00addi/page/38/mode/2up?q=%22whenever+you+commend%22" target="_blank">Source</a>)
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                <!-- DCH Modify the title to give the category (quote author) at the beginning of it. -->
		<title>Propertius -- Elegies, Book 2, Elegy 10, l.   5ff (2.10.5-6) [tr. Holcombe (2009)]</title>
		<link>https://wist.info/propertius/3221/</link>
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		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2004 16:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Propertius]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[aspiration]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[attempt]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[audacity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[boldness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[courage]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[daring]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[determination]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[endeavor]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[enterprise]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[failure]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[falling short]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[goal]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[honor]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[intention]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[praise]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[praiseworthiness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[striving]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[will]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[And should I fail, my courage brings its commendation: greatness aimed at is enough. [Quod si deficiant vires, audacia certe Laus erit: in magnis et voluisse sat est.] Talking specifically about writing epics about mighty themes and accomplishments. Because of the corruption of manuscripts of Propertius and speculating from internal references, some 19th Century scholars [&#8230;]]]></description>
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And should I fail, my courage brings its commendation:<br />
<span class="tab">greatness aimed at is enough.</p>
<p><em>[Quod si deficiant vires, audacia certe<br />
Laus erit: in magnis et voluisse sat est.]</em></span></p>
<br><b>Propertius</b> (50–16 BC) Roman elegiac poet [Sextus Propertius]<br><i>Elegies</i>, Book 2, Elegy 10, l.   5ff (2.10.5-6) [tr. Holcombe (2009)] 
									<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(<a href="https://www.ocasopress.com/pdf/sextus_propertius_elegies_translation.pdf#page=113" target="_blank">Source</a>)
										<br><br><span class="cite">
						

Talking specifically about writing epics about mighty themes and accomplishments.<br><br>

Because of the corruption of manuscripts of Propertius and speculating from internal references, some 19th Century scholars (e.g., <a href="https://archive.org/details/LoebClassicalLibraryL018/page/n17/mode/2up">Lachmann</a>) argued for a different division of the elegies into books, thus the translations here wich instead label this as Book 3, Elegy 1.<br><br>

(<a href="https://www.thelatinlibrary.com/prop2.html#:~:text=quod%20si%20deficiant%20vires%2C%20audacia%20certe%0A%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0laus%20erit%3A%20in%20magnis%20et%20voluisse%20sat%20est.">Source (Latin)</a>). Other translations: <br><br>

<blockquote>And if my powers of song should fail -- to dare were surely fame:<br>
Enough that I have had the will; no higher praise I claim.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044010369999&seq=264&q1=helicon">Cranstoun</a> (1875), 3.1]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>Courage in weighty works must power supply,<br>
And praise be mine that I've the will to try.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_elegies_of_Propertius_tr_into_Engl_v/3GQCAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=%22weighty%20works%22">Moore</a> (1870), 3.1]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>But if my powers fail me, at all events my courage will be meritorious: in great attempts even to have had the will is enough.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/elegies00prop/page/38/mode/2up?q=%22powers+fail+me%22">Gantillon</a> (1884), 3.1]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>And if my strength fail, at least my boldness will be a title of honour; in great enterprises, the very "I would" is enough.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc2.ark:/13960/t83j3gr9k&seq=65&q1=%22my+strength+fail%22">Phillimore</a> (1906)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>But should strength fail me, yet my daring shall win me fame: in mighty enterprises enough even to have willed success.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/LoebClassicalLibraryL018/page/n111/mode/2up?q=%22strength+fail%22">Butler</a> (Loeb) (1912)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>If I have not the faculty, "The bare attempt would be praiseworthy."<br>
"In things of similar magnitude<br>
<span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab"><span class="tab">the mere will to act is sufficient."<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/trent_0116301752717/page/132/mode/2up?q=%22not+the+faculty%22">Pound</a> (1919), 5.1]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>What though I fail? That I have dared aspire<br>
should be enough. I shall have tried. What more?<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/poemsofpropertiu0000unse_a4j4/page/72/mode/2up?q=%22what+though+i+fail%22">Carrier</a> (1963)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>But if my strength should fail, why then my temerity <br>
Is sure of praise, for in matters of moment<br>
The intention suffices.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/propertius-elegies-musker.txt/page/87/mode/2up?q=%22strength+should+fail%22">Musker</a> (1972)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>And should strength fail me, my daring at least will win me praise: in mighty projects even to have wished is enough.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/elegiespropertiu0000prop/page/132/mode/2up?q=%22strength+fail+me%22">Goold</a> (Loeb) (1990)] </blockquote><br>

<blockquote>If strength be lacking, surely ambition will be praised; <br>
<span class="tab">The intention in great matters is enough. <br>
[tr. <a href="https://archive.org/details/poems0000prop_b2d5/page/38/mode/2up?q=%22strength+be+lacking%22">Lee</a> (1992)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>But if I lack the power, then surely my courage will be praised: it’s enough simply to have willed great things.<br>
[tr. <a href="https://www.poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Latin/PropertiusBkTwo.php#anchor_Toc201112259:~:text=But%20if%20I%20lack%20the%20power%2C%20then%20surely%20my%20courage%20will%20be%20praised%3A%20it%E2%80%99s%20enough%20simply%20to%20have%20willed%20great%20things.">Kline</a> (2001)]</blockquote><br>

<blockquote>What though strength fails? Boldness is certain to win praise. In mighty enterprises, it is enough to have had the determination.<br>
[<a href="https://www.google.com/books/edition/Bartlett_s_Familiar_Quotations/rZdZEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=propertius+%22What+though+strength+fails%22&pg=PT389&printsec=frontcover">Bartlett</a>]</blockquote><br>						</span>
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